How To Set Up In Ear Monitors
How to go started with in ear monitors for my band?
I'm in a new 4 piece stone band and we'd like to offset using in ear monitors for live shows, having heard peachy things almost them.
What is the easiest way to go about this? I don't know much most how to set them upwardly, although I've done a flake of research online.
We consist of myself on pb vocal/guitar/keyboards, another guitarist , a drummer who plays an electronic drum kit, and a bass player. All the other band members sing backing vocals. Ideally we'd similar to employ wireless in ear monitors, but not necessarily.
Would it be best for us to purchase a digital mixer (eg a Behringer X32 compact) and power amps for our PA system, and so 4 separate personal monitor mixers (such equally a Behringer p16-Yard) and then each band member tin can have their own personal monitor mix? How would this work with wireless in ear monitors? I've also heard there are some apps for iPad/iPhone and Android which can be used to control personal monitor mixes too, so would it be better for each band fellow member to have an iPad instead and so they tin control their mix?
How would it work in practical terms at a live show - would each ring member have the personal mixer or iPad set up up in front of them on a mic stand to accommodate their monitor mix on the fly? Or would it exist set equally a presets beforehand with the settings existence controlled by a pedal and the personal mixers set up up at the side of the stage out of audience view?
How much we want to spend is debatable as well, merely we're prepared to trounce out a reasonable amount of coin for a good setup. If anyone can suggest some skilful wired or wireless in ears monitors and personal monitor mixers (or apps), that'd be smashing too.
rent a desk with plenty auxes and efx plus a multichannel headphone amp so you can give it a try; you don't necessarily need a remote command for each musician - wireless drives upward costs massively.
Wireless IEM on the cheap:
XR18 mixer
2x stereo transmitters, 500-600MHz range
4x receivers
TV splitter
TV amplifier
Log periodic antenna
BNC/RG6 cables/adapters
Locking 1RU drawer
4RU instance
xvi aqueduct XLR splitter
This provides four carve up mono IEM channels. You lot don't need stereo. No, you actually don't. Neither does the other band member who's whining almost information technology. Any benefit from stereo is a detriment the second you're not facing forward.
You lot're at the mercy of what's bachelor in your surface area inexpensively, either new or used, so I'chiliad not going to bother mentioning brands etc. Merely make sure information technology has skilful coverage in the 500-600MHz range, BNC antenna connectors, and the boosted receivers are either included or available separately. With the amplifier you lot don't have to worry about strong output, information technology's getting a 12dB boost from the amp and the directional antenna adds 8dB compared to the stock omni antennas. It's gonna cut!
You lot'll have to DIY cables to go from the BNC antenna jacks to the Television splitter, which is used backwards to combine the antenna outputs into ane cable so you lot only need one amplifier and directional antenna. The antenna I mentioned is only a PCB unit, might wanna buck up hither for a more durable metal one like the Sennheiser A2003, only information technology's pretty disgusting how much they cost for what they are. The end product is probably as well powerful for some countries, but rubber for North America.
If you unremarkably run more than than sixteen channels and then you should delegate the xvi you demand most, because that 17th channel will cost you over a grand (X32 Rack + SD8 or SD16 i/o box instead of XR18). You tin however run over 16 channels to the FOH mix, only don't carve up the ones you don't need.
The super cheap Xtuga systems on Amazon work pretty well, but questionable immovability, and watch out for models that look stereo merely are actually mono.
i fully disagree on the notion that one does not need stereo - rather, one needs stereo PLUS a crossfeed matrix! or and so a 3d-ish system such every bit klang:fabrik or klang:vier in the op's case...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2SPL ➡️
Wireless IEM on the cheap:
XR18 mixer
2x stereo transmitters, 500-600MHz range
4x receivers
Television receiver splitter
Tv amplifier
Log periodic antenna
BNC/RG6 cables/adapters
Locking 1RU drawer
4RU instance
sixteen channel XLR splitter
This provides four separate mono IEM channels. You don't need stereo. No, you actually don't. Neither does the other band member who's whining nigh it. Any benefit from stereo is a detriment the second you're not facing forward.
You're at the mercy of what'south available in your area inexpensively, either new or used, so I'yard non going to bother mentioning brands etc. Simply make certain it has good coverage in the 500-600MHz range, BNC antenna connectors, and the additional receivers are either included or bachelor separately. With the amplifier you don't take to worry about stiff output, it'due south getting a 12dB boost from the amp and the directional antenna adds 8dB compared to the stock omni antennas. Information technology'south gonna cut!
You'll have to DIY cables to go from the BNC antenna jacks to the TV splitter, which is used backwards to combine the antenna outputs into one cable and so you lot merely need one amplifier and directional antenna. The antenna I mentioned is just a PCB unit, might wanna buck up here for a more durable metal one like the Sennheiser A2003, but it'south pretty icky how much they cost for what they are. The end product is probably too powerful for some countries, just safe for North America.
If you usually run more than xvi channels and so you should delegate the 16 you need most, because that 17th channel will cost yous over a yard (X32 Rack + SD8 or SD16 i/o box instead of XR18). You can still run over 16 channels to the FOH mix, just don't split the ones you don't need.
The super cheap Xtuga systems on Amazon work pretty well, but questionable durability, and spotter out for models that look stereo but are really mono.
Thanks for your answer, that is an interesting style of setting up IEMs. Is the XR18 whatsoever good, I mean how convenient is information technology to mix using an iPad or Android, and plus I assume the XR18 has no built in effects so what do we practise for vocal effects like reverb, filibuster etc?
About not needing stereo, isn't stereo meliorate for getting the right separation between each instrument in the mix? I.east. you lot tin pan instruments in the same frequency ranges left or right to be able to hear them better etc.
Finally, then you don't recommend personal monitor mixers and a distribution hub such as the Behringer P16-D?
Lives for gear
What interests you lot well-nigh IEM systems? How would it benefit how you play, sound, perform etc.?
Heres what i dont similar about IEM and "creative person mixes".
-unless you have a silent stage. Theres not really a bespeak, in using IEM.
-About 70% of the bands ive worked with that use and practice with IEM are hard of hearing/ take some hearing loss.
-too much time spent at soundcheck when everyones trying to get their own version of a perfect mix.
What mixer exercise you have right at present?
Lives for gear
I ever encourage bands (specially rock outfits) to utilize in ears. 1 band i work with about always brings their own desk. Their monitor mixes are pretty much set up and forget. Only small level adjustments if any. Everyone is happy. There'southward just so much y'all tin feed into monitors. The drummer might want some sub though for his bass drum. The not so inexpensive solution would be a kicker stool. But try it out.
And as far equally the bodily in ears themselves, I'd recommend looking at the kz zsx, zsn or zs10pro. They all sound so much better than what you get on the upkeep side of shure, at and others. Go foam tips so they fit well.
The rent a desk (and perhaps an engineer) for a day to piece of work with you is a great thought. it volition speed things up
Quote:
Originally Posted by nksoloproject ➡️
Thanks for your reply, that is an interesting fashion of setting up IEMs. Is the XR18 any good, I hateful how convenient is it to mix using an iPad or Android, and plus I assume the XR18 has no built in furnishings so what practice we do for song effects similar reverb, delay etc?
Near not needing stereo, isn't stereo better for getting the right separation betwixt each instrument in the mix? I.eastward. you tin can pan instruments in the same frequency ranges left or right to be able to hear them better etc.
Finally, and so you don't recommend personal monitor mixers and a distribution hub such as the Behringer P16-D?
The XR18 has most of what the X32 Rack has except:
- 16 XLR inputs and 2 aux inputs, 6 outputs
- 4 effects slots instead of 8 (yet furnishings), only each output has a parametric and graphic EQ
- no AES50 (can't aggrandize i/o)
- different firmware and tablet software, but very similar
The XR18 is well suited to entry level IEM rigs, and will concur resale value well if y'all decide to upgrade or expand. Migrating to an X32 rig will be painless since they're so similar.
I've never used the personal monitoring system on X32'south or XR18's. I just don't see the point in paying for a wired one-fox pony that does nada a tablet tin't. And the software for the XR serial and X32/M32 for iPad or Android is the best, probably will never be matched past other companies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng ➡️
What mixer do you have correct now?
We were using a powered PA mixer, just are about to buy a brand new mixer (we already have power amps and speakers). I'm thinking almost either of these Behringer analog mixers:
https://world wide web.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0AL3
https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Behr...PAH0012813-000
Question is, tin can analogue mixers work for IEMs, and if and so how practice we connect them up? I've heard it's done via AUX sends, but information technology all seems so complicated!
We are prepared to buy a digital mixer, though, if need exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted past nksoloproject ➡️
We were using a powered PA mixer, but are about to buy a brand new mixer (nosotros already take ability amps and speakers). I'1000 thinking virtually this:
https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0AL3
Question is, tin counterpart mixers work for IEMs, and if and so how do we connect them up? I've heard it's washed via AUX sends, only it all seems then complicated!
Ok, good to know.
I suspect that since you are looking at the Xenyx mixer (~ $350) you don't have a particularly large budget.
First, I would never recommend a Xenyx mixer to anyone (I liked). I had 2 of them. Both broke chop-chop and sounded bad. Now, this is not to say I dislike Behringer mixers. I quite like the XR and X32 mixers (and the M32's) and in-fact own an X32 Rack myself.
Endeavour an XR16 instead ($550): https://world wide web.guitarcenter.com/Behring...mount-Mixer.gc
This gives you iv aux outs (four IEM mixes) and
Side by side you lot will need a head-phone amp. This one is reliable and cheap: https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0BKB
Good luck!
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng ➡️
Ok, good to know.
I suspect that since you are looking at the Xenyx mixer (~ $350) y'all don't have a particularly large budget.
First, I would never recommend a Xenyx mixer to anyone (I liked). I had 2 of them. Both broke quickly and sounded bad. At present, this is not to say I dislike Behringer mixers. I quite like the XR and X32 mixers (and the M32'south) and in-fact own an X32 Rack myself.
Endeavor an XR16 instead ($550): https://world wide web.guitarcenter.com/Behring...mount-Mixer.gc
This gives you 4 aux outs (four IEM mixes) and
Adjacent y'all volition need a head-phone amp. This 1 is reliable and inexpensive: https://world wide web.behringer.com/production.html?modelCode=P0BKB
Good luck!
Ok thank you for your communication. We could stretch our budget a bit more, however I just idea that if information technology's possible to do it cheaper so I'd give that a go. The XR16 looks a good bet, notwithstanding a few more questions:
ane) With an XR16, what do we exercise for furnishings like reverb, delay etc (for vocals especially) equally presumably this volition have no furnishings built in? (Edit: actually I've merely googled the product and information technology says it DOES accept congenital in effects...but can they exist controlled by a footswitch, or fifty-fifty a Bluetooth footswitch?)
2) Doesn't the XR16 have any stereo channels, eg for a keyboard or electronic drum kit? We may demand these to be connected in stereo.
iii) With the XR16, can we connect the 4 aux outs to 4 Behringer P16 personal monitor mixers instead of the headphone amp you mention? Or maybe we'd need to upgrade to an XR18 instead?
4) How do nosotros connect wireless IEMs to the P16 personal monitor mixer?
Oh and does the XR16 come with its own app for mixing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nksoloproject ➡️
Ok thanks for your advice. Nosotros could stretch our budget a bit more, withal I simply thought that if information technology's possible to do it cheaper then I'd give that a go. The XR16 looks a good bet, all the same a few more questions:
one) With an XR16, what exercise we exercise for furnishings like reverb, delay etc (for vocals specially) equally presumably this will take no effects congenital in? (Edit: really I've just googled the production and it says it DOES accept built in effects...but tin can they be controlled by a footswitch, or even a Bluetooth footswitch?)
The XR16 has built in effects (any iv of the multitude it has at one time). In addition, each channel has the ability to put a compressor and/or a gate on information technology. You can as well put a 31 ring eq (or six band PEQ) on the mains I believe (or really any channel insert you want to use). In other words, it has many many times the efx power of the Xenyx.
The MIDI implementation is extensive and y'all can control nearly everything the mixer can do: https://behringerwiki.musictribe.com...?title=8._MIDI
Quote:
2) Doesn't the XR16 take any stereo channels, eg for a keyboard or electronic drum kit? We may need these to be continued in stereo.
For stereo inputs, yous utilise 2 mono channels. In the mixing app, you lot configure the pair of channels every bit a stereo pair.
Quote:
3) With the XR16, tin can we connect the 4 aux outs to 4 Behringer P16 personal monitor mixers instead of the headphone amp y'all mention? Or perhaps we'd demand to upgrade to an XR18 instead?
The P16M is a seriously comprehensive personal mixer. Each member of the band would need ane at $280 each and you would need to upgrade to the XR18 ($700). I would consider the P16M a Cadillac solution for personal monitoring, merely it is Way more than complicated to employ for your ring members (harder to setup as well).
Quote:
iv) How practise we connect wireless IEMs to the P16 personal monitor mixer?
If y'all want to go wireless, you will need to spend much more money (more than coin than the entire rig I have then far outlined .... just for the IEM system).
Quote:
Oh and does the XR16 come up with its own app for mixing?
Yep! The app is quite good every bit well and you tin can download it and see how you similar it for free.
If y'all really want to become to know this mixer, download the off-line editor "Ten-AIR Edit". It is a very nice app and you tin run information technology on your PC without any hardware.
I'd recommend confronting the XR16 in favour of the XR18. Yes it's more than expensive, but XR16'south will dice in resale value way faster than XR18's. XR18's can human action as 18x18 multitrack interfaces over USB, XR16'southward can only tape stereo over USB. That lone is worth the $150 toll difference. Whatever a used XR18 sells for, the market value of a used XR16 will always reflect the fact that you tin can't just plug a laptop in and record a multitrack demo at your rehearsal space or at a alive gig with the gear you already ain and know. You'll accept to expect until there's a lull in the XR18's available to sell an XR16, and I mean nationally because they're not difficult to ship.
Virtually all of today's digital mixers let plenary control of aux outs for monitor mixes. I've used Soundcraft Ui for v years, first a Ui16 and at present a Ui24R for 3 years. No proprietary app. The mixer basically acts as a local web site, accessed through a dedicated router with just about any browser. You can have as many every bit ten control devices (tablet, telephone, computer) logged in simultaneously, so each member tin can have complete control of his monitor mix. Overall mix control access tin can be restricted, and then, say, your bass player tin't mess up the front-of-business firm audience mix by turning up something in his iem mix. It allows extremely precise mixing of all active audio sources and has full eq for each aux channel. So if said bass actor wants a actually heavy bottom end in his ears, and then exist it.
There'southward even a cute, useful feature called "More than Me". Yous tag your own sources (e.g., singing guitarist'southward musical instrument and vocal mic) as "Me", and a simple slider screen lets you raise or lower "Me" relative to everything else in your monitor mix.
Finally, another characteristic called "Soundcheck" lets the band play a song and record it to a USB stick, then go out front end and play it back with real-fourth dimension mixer control. In other words, you lot can fine-tune what the audience hears, and then your mixer tin can stay set similar that for the bear witness. Evidently, yous could also fine-tune your iem mixes if you're wireless or apply an extension cable for wired earpieces. Or merely run Soundcheck while you're in performing positions and piece of work your aux mixes.
I'chiliad not certain whether the Behringers have like features. I've had some fourth dimension on X mixers and didn't care for the user interface, but that may just exist my preferring what I know better.
In whatsoever effect, the aux out is just a variable line-level source that volition crave amplification to drive speakers or iems. Usable headphone amps designed for monitoring employ start at about $threescore usd and go up to a lot more than that, and at that place are several means to rig them. At the mixer with a long cable to your caput. On your belt or mic stand with an xlr cable from the mixer. Or something like the Bound IXL, a body pack with a unmarried multiplex cablevision to acquit a guitar bespeak to the mixer and an iem signal back to the guitarist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2SPL ➡️
I'd recommend against the XR16 in favour of the XR18. Aye it's more expensive, but XR16's will die in resale value way faster than XR18'due south. XR18'due south can act as 18x18 multitrack interfaces over USB, XR16's can merely record stereo over USB. That alone is worth the $150 toll difference. Any a used XR18 sells for, the market value of a used XR16 will always reflect the fact that you can't merely plug a laptop in and record a multitrack demo at your rehearsal space or at a alive gig with the gear you already own and know. You'll have to wait until at that place's a lull in the XR18's available to sell an XR16, and I mean nationally because they're non hard to ship.
While I agree, the OP'south starting bid was a $350.00 Xenyx 
. I practice actually agree with your assessment though. It is WELL worth the additional $150.00 for having multi-track recording and some other 8 preamps.
Another choice is the X18 (vs XR18) which tin can exist had for $650.00 ... but you practice give up the XLR Aux sends (it has TRS i/iv" sends instead).
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer ➡️
What interests you lot about IEM systems? How would it benefit how y'all play, sound, perform etc.?
They allow a musician to hear their mix in crystal clear clarity. You can hear all the instruments and the subtle nuances of each musical instrument conspicuously, and you will therefore perform better as a upshot. As a rock vocalist, I know that the worst possible matter for a vocalizer is not being able to oneself onstage as information technology forces you to sing harder and puts strain on your vocalization etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer ➡️
-unless you have a silent stage. Theres not really a betoken, in using IEM.
I thought IEMs block out all exterior sound (unless y'all purchase ambient ones, which permit in a little corporeality of exterior sound, so you lot can hear the oversupply etc), so this wouldn't be an issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer ➡️
-Virtually 70% of the bands ive worked with that use and practice with IEM are difficult of hearing/ have some hearing loss.
Are you lot saying they use IEMs because they had hearing loss, or are you saying that IEMs caused their hearing loss? I think IEMs will actually help protect a musician's hearing considering they volition not have to be exposed to the sort of volume levels they otherwise would (i.east. loud acoustic pulsate kits, big walls of guitar amps, etc).
Quote:
Originally Posted past coreyspencer ➡️
-too much fourth dimension spent at soundcheck when everyones trying to become their ain version of a perfect mix.
This is easily solved past having preset IEM mixes saved. You sort out your 'perfect' IEM mix during rehearsals, then when yous plow up to a gig you simply utilize the aforementioned preset IEM mix at every gig, thus giving you lot perfect sound all the time with no time spent dialling it in at the gig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng ➡️
If you really want to get to know this mixer, download the off-line editor "X-AIR Edit". It is a very overnice app and you can run information technology on your PC without whatever hardware.
I was wondering whether it's possible to control the X16, X18 or X32 rack with a windows PC instead of an iPad or Android? Does the software you mention do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng ➡️
While I agree, the OP's starting bid was a $350.00 Xenyx . I do really agree with your cess though. Information technology is WELL worth the additional $150.00 for having multi-track recording and another 8 preamps.
Another option is the X18 (vs XR18) which tin can exist had for $650.00 ... but yous do give up the XLR Aux sends (information technology has TRS ane/4" sends instead).
Quote:
Originally Posted past OldChico ➡️
Near all of today'south digital mixers allow plenary control of aux outs for monitor mixes. I've used Soundcraft Ui for five years, first a Ui16 and now a Ui24R for three years. No proprietary app. The mixer basically acts as a local web site, accessed through a dedicated router with just about whatsoever browser. You can have as many as ten control devices (tablet, phone, figurer) logged in simultaneously, so each member can have consummate control of his monitor mix. Overall mix control access can be restricted, then, say, your bass player can't mess up the front end-of-house audience mix past turning up something in his iem mix. It allows extremely precise mixing of all agile audio sources and has total eq for each aux aqueduct. So if said bass histrion wants a really heavy lesser stop in his ears, so be it.
At that place's even a beautiful, useful feature chosen "More Me". You lot tag your own sources (eastward.grand., singing guitarist's instrument and song mic) every bit "Me", and a simple slider screen lets you enhance or lower "Me" relative to everything else in your monitor mix.
Finally, another feature called "Soundcheck" lets the band play a song and tape it to a USB stick, then go out forepart and play it back with real-time mixer control. In other words, y'all can fine-melody what the audience hears, and so your mixer tin can stay fix similar that for the bear witness. Obviously, you could also fine-tune your iem mixes if you're wireless or use an extension cable for wired earpieces. Or just run Soundcheck while you're in performing positions and work your aux mixes.
I'm not sure whether the Behringers have similar features. I've had some fourth dimension on X mixers and didn't care for the user interface, but that may but exist my preferring what I know better.
In whatever event, the aux out is just a variable line-level source that will require amplification to drive speakers or iems. Usable headphone amps designed for monitoring use start at most $60 usd and get upwardly to a lot more than than that, and in that location are several ways to rig them. At the mixer with a long cablevision to your caput. On your chugalug or mic stand with an xlr cablevision from the mixer. Or something like the Leap IXL, a torso pack with a unmarried multiplex cable to conduct a guitar signal to the mixer and an iem signal back to the guitarist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2SPL ➡️
I'd recommend confronting the XR16 in favour of the XR18. Yeah information technology's more than expensive, but XR16'southward will die in resale value way faster than XR18'southward. XR18'southward tin can act as 18x18 multitrack interfaces over USB, XR16's can only record stereo over USB. That lone is worth the $150 price difference. Whatever a used XR18 sells for, the market value of a used XR16 will always reflect the fact that y'all tin can't but plug a laptop in and record a multitrack demo at your rehearsal infinite or at a live gig with the gear you already own and know. You'll accept to expect until there'due south a lull in the XR18's available to sell an XR16, and I mean nationally because they're not difficult to ship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng ➡️
The P16M is a seriously comprehensive personal mixer. Each member of the ring would need one at $280 each and you would need to upgrade to the XR18 ($700). I would consider the P16M a Cadillac solution for personal monitoring, simply it is WAY more than complicated to use for your ring members (harder to setup also).
So can I conclude from these replies that it'south not necessary to have a personal monitor mixer, and instead you tin merely use the aux outs of a digital mixer to create individual IEM for each band member? If so, why do manufacturers proceed pushing the idea of ownership separate personal monitor mixers then - is it to make them more money?
What are the pros and cons of using aux sends vs a personal monitor mixer to create IEM mixes? Can you basically get the same effect and same quality with either method?
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by nksoloproject ➡️
They allow a musician to hear their mix in crystal articulate clarity. You tin can hear all the instruments and the subtle nuances of each instrument clearly, and you volition therefore perform meliorate as a consequence. As a rock vocalist, I know that the worst possible thing for a singer is not being able to oneself onstage as information technology forces you lot to sing harder and puts strain on your phonation etc.
I idea IEMs block out all exterior sound (unless yous buy ambient ones, which allow in a petty corporeality of exterior sound, and then you can hear the oversupply etc), so this wouldn't be an issue?
Are you proverb they apply IEMs because they had hearing loss, or are you saying that IEMs acquired their hearing loss? I think IEMs will actually assistance protect a musician'due south hearing because they will not have to be exposed to the sort of volume levels they otherwise would (i.eastward. loud acoustic drum kits, big walls of guitar amps, etc).
This is hands solved by having preset IEM mixes saved. You sort out your 'perfect' IEM mix during rehearsals, and so when yous plough up to a gig yous just utilise the same preset IEM mix at every gig, thus giving you perfect sound all the time with no time spent dialling it in at the gig.
-Phase monitors let y'all to hear yourself and others more precisely i beleive. Some other affair to consider is at some signal youre going to be able to hear everything coming off the stage and whats pushed out front. Youll exist able to experience the bass/subs Then those cues lone should get you listening amend and ultimately playing improve.
-i think thats exactly the effect. You lot put yourself in your own globe. Volume becomes irrelevant after prolonged usage. Fact. In that location is nothing to guess whats loud and whats not. The stage monitors dont accept to be loud. Merely as loud as the loudest thing on the phase. If youve got IEM cranked it defeats the purpose of using IEM equally a way to protect your hearing from a loud stage. Irony at play.
-IEM probably doesnt help anyones hearing unless you have a silent stage. All feeds DI to FOH, except for acoustic drums, youll still hear those on the stage. Or and then much stage realestate that each fellow member is nearly isolated from eachother. Or even, probably the worst case scenario; a sharp blast of dissonance. Y'all cant exactly ignore that on IEM.
- the set it and forget it method, needs training, and consistancy throught the whole signal catamenia. So aye, i spose if its figured out its figured out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nksoloproject ➡️
So can I conclude from these replies that information technology's not necessary to take a personal monitor mixer, and instead you tin can just use the aux outs of a digital mixer to create individual IEM for each band member? If so, why do manufacturers keep pushing the idea of ownership separate personal monitor mixers so - is it to make them more than coin?
What are the pros and cons of using aux sends vs a personal monitor mixer to create IEM mixes? Can you basically go the aforementioned result and aforementioned quality with either method?
A personal monitor mixer is like a TV remote command with simply a handful of huge buttons. They exist to assistance sell mixers to potential buyers that reject to learn the product.
Meanwhile, the iOS and Android software for the XR18 and X32 line of mixers is by far the easiest to larn and nearly versatile on the market. Similar information technology's painful for united states of america to rely upon tablet software for much more expensive mixers from very established brands. I've mixed support acts on X32'south in 1500 cap venues from an iPad without breaking a sweat. Running one's own monitor mix with this collection of software is child'south play. They tin be locked to a specific monitor mix likewise, no worry of anyone accessing anything they shouldn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted past AC2SPL ➡️
A personal monitor mixer is like a TV remote control with only a handful of huge buttons. They be to aid sell mixers to potential buyers that refuse to larn the product.
Meanwhile, the iOS and Android software for the XR18 and X32 line of mixers is by far the easiest to acquire and almost versatile on the market. Similar it'due south painful for us to rely upon tablet software for much more expensive mixers from very established brands. I've mixed support acts on X32's in 1500 cap venues from an iPad without breaking a sweat. Running one'south own monitor mix with this collection of software is child's play. They tin can be locked to a specific monitor mix too, no worry of anyone accessing anything they shouldn't.
This.
Using the Aux transport in the XR mixer, you tin can make a comprehensive mix from all channels for each of the 4 aux sends. If each band member has a smart phone, an app exists for the telephone that allows them to adjust this mix remotely while on phase.
Y'all nonetheless need a headphone amp to dilate the Aux Send signal to power the IEM drivers though. That is why I linked to the wired belt pack. Note, the wired belt pack offers an contained physical knob for volume which is nice.
Besides, the idea that bands that use IEM's accept hearing harm is BS IMO. I practise think that having i IEM out and the other in is a bad idea that may lead to hearing damage; withal, my Own hearing was damaged late in high school in a band due to cymbals crashing near my caput. Had I been using IEM's (although I don't retrieve that was a thing in the early 80'due south), I would have much meliorate hearing in my right ear today.
As another person looking to convince his ring onto IEMs, I am glad to meet others are happy enough to use the XR18 on a existent stage.
Just so I tin get clear in my own head -
Practise guitarists etc more often than not discover they don't demand a stereo mix? I ask because I'thou a singer, and I struggle with a mono mix fifty-fifty in the studio. I always want separation betwixt me and the band so I tin can always hear my cues. half-dozen aux outs on an XR18 would do ok, simply merely one of u.s. could have a stereo mix, and that'd have to be me (since I'd exist paying for it!).
Could those personal monitor mix boxes really help with this? Since they run on network cable, if I needed to add together just one more stereo aqueduct (for the drummer, say) then could I add that actress box and use it to mix another stereo output?
Do nearly people running these systems have a split up drum mixer, or practice they run the drum mics directly into the large mixer? Ideally I'd desire to mix the kit to my ain gustation (turn down cymbals) but that'll use a lot of inputs.
No-one has talked near useful other mics, just for rehearsal it seems like it'd be useful to exist able to talk to each other without pulling our ears out, and at a gig it'd exist nice to exist able to hear some oversupply noise. Practice people practise this sort of stuff? Is it really useful/necessary?
How practice you normally hook up into the front of house (of variable quality and brand) at a gig? Do y'all mix yourself inside your mixer, and then transport a primary mix out to their mixer/PA? Are FoH people (of variable quality) generally alright with you saying "Jog on mate, we'll mix ourselves" ? Would you normally permit them play with the main mix via laptop/tablet?
Finally, although less directly relevant, does anyone have ideas how to keep the cables associated with wired IEMs from getting caught/tangled upwards? Personally I'll be on wireless anyhow, but I doubt I tin convince 5 others to buy wireless systems immediately and while they don't run around the stage they do yet move, and cables may present a trouble.
Deplorable for a barrage of questions but I was literally coming here today to first a thread almost getting a rack mixer so.... Yeah, lots of questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostTheTone ➡️
Equally another person looking to convince his band onto IEMs, I am glad to encounter others are happy plenty to use the XR18 on a real stage.
But so I can get clear in my ain head -
Practise guitarists etc mostly find they don't need a stereo mix? I inquire because I'm a singer, and I struggle with a mono mix fifty-fifty in the studio. I always want separation between me and the band and so I can always hear my cues. 6 aux outs on an XR18 would exercise ok, but merely i of united states could take a stereo mix, and that'd accept to be me (since I'd be paying for it!).
Guitarist are (IME) the most hard to get to utilize IEM's. They by and large don't care well-nigh stereo or non, in fact, my biggest upshot is getting them to put both ear buds in instead of but one (a situation that tin result in hearing loss btw).
Quote:
Could those personal monitor mix boxes actually help with this? Since they run on network cable, if I needed to add merely one more than stereo channel (for the drummer, say) so could I add that extra box and use information technology to mix another stereo output?
Using the P16m you have a total xvi channel stereo mixer for each band fellow member. You nonetheless have to assign the xvi channels that will be used in the setup of the mixer.
Quote:
Practise most people running these systems have a separate drum mixer, or exercise they run the drum mics straight into the big mixer? Ideally I'd want to mix the kit to my ain gustation (plough downwardly cymbals) but that'll employ a lot of inputs.
On the X32 (not X air) y'all tin can make a drum mix on a sub-groups. I would brand groups for cymbals and toms, and and then feed the boot and snare in equally an input to the IEM mix (taking upwardly 3 of the 16 p16 mix inputs). On the 10-air serial, everything would need to exist miced and mixed (I don't think information technology has sub-groups, simply DCA's which aren't actually busses so they can't exist sent via a send)
Quote:
No-one has talked virtually useful other mics, but for rehearsal information technology seems similar it'd be useful to be able to talk to each other without pulling our ears out, and at a gig information technology'd be nice to be able to hear some crowd noise. Do people do this sort of stuff? Is it actually useful/necessary?
I find that you can hear each other fine from the ambience pickup of the phase mics. The drummer may need a mic just for this purpose fifty-fifty if he doesn't sing though since he is so far from the mic .... even then, you can make it work.
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How do you normally hook up into the front of house (of variable quality and make) at a gig? Do you mix yourself inside your mixer, then transport a master mix out to their mixer/PA? Are FoH people (of variable quality) generally alright with you saying "Jog on mate, nosotros'll mix ourselves" ? Would you usually let them play with the master mix via laptop/tablet?
We mix ourselves (using a tablet mounted on my mic stand) or have someone in the audience we take picked to mix for us that is skilful at mixing.
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Finally, although less directly relevant, does anyone take ideas how to keep the cables associated with wired IEMs from getting defenseless/tangled upward? Personally I'll exist on wireless anyway, but I doubt I tin can convince 5 others to purchase wireless systems immediately and while they don't run around the stage they do withal move, and cables may nowadays a problem.
Cables are always a trouble on stage. Wired IEM'due south make it worse for sure. We record them downwards in the same cable runs going out for the microphones and leave enough cable in the area of each musician for them to motility around some.
Lots of good advice here, so let me summarize? I own the PAs for any band I'one thousand in. The XR-18 is a great choice, purchase used if you can. It may be more you demand now, only it tin can be used for most any future production and will keep you happy for a long time. It is difficult for me to imagine outgrowing it.
We don't e'er accept a sound person, and then anybody self-mixes their monitor feed. We use a combination of IEMs and floor monitors. Not everyone is comfortable with IEMs yet. I have purchased P16-Ms for the IEM users, including the vocalists. I consider them function of the PA. The monitor users (east.thou. drums, bass) can either self-mix using an app, or perhaps enquire the sound person if nosotros take one. Of course, it is too possible to run a monitor off of a P16-Grand if someone wants to exercise that.
We run a vocal FX bus (using the built-in ones) into one aqueduct (xvi) for the P16-M users that vocalists can dial into their ears as they prefer. In that location's an inexpensive hub that connects xvi channels and supplier power over cat5 enet, so a bit less ataxia on phase. Sound person (when we have one) can focus on FOH. The user learning curve is not bad, as it'southward simpler to deal with than a tablet for nigh.
Even if nosotros're part of a festival where at that place's already PA, we can use a splitter and still run our own stage mix. Information technology'southward a flake of a hack, merely it works.
Thanks for those answers, I know it was a lot to wade through, simply it does assist me become it all clear.
Now I think nigh it, our bass actor (and de facto director) may be won over past the idea of being able to just mix ourselves, with a saved set-up, then not be at the mercy of FoH. I guess we shall encounter!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostTheTone ➡️
Thank you for those answers, I know it was a lot to wade through, simply it does help me get it all clear.
Now I think about it, our bass role player (and de facto managing director) may exist won over by the idea of beingness able to simply mix ourselves, with a saved set-upwards, and then not exist at the mercy of FoH. I estimate nosotros shall see!
Minor additional idea: Bold y'all've got something similar the X-Air xviii, there are 6 auxes out. Nosotros got started with IEMs past simply running a monitor feed to a pocket-sized, cheap battery-powered chugalug device, which then went to IEMs. You couldn't control the mix directly, but could control volume.
Well, inconvenient for the singer, as in that location were batteries and cables involved. But we were able to try IEMs without much additional investment.
Re: stereo and singers hearing themselves conspicuously. "Real" stereo is 2 carve up paired signals. My keys puts out a L and a R, and they are different. I utilize two of the 16 bachelor channels.
Vocals are a mono source, as is a guitar, etc. Pulsate mixes tin be panned nicely, and so "real" stereo. Some effects (stereo chorus) make a mono betoken stereo. With a personal mixer, a singer can ready balance for each channel, and so they become a actually dainty mix, including their own voice in dead eye, with other vocalists on one "side" or another. Works great.
However, this sort of setup won't send furnishings on phase unless you then some clever routing, for which youtube volition instruct you if needed.
Last edited by cphollis; 15th Baronial 2022 at 05:54 PM.. Reason: typos
A couple of points:
- To those wondering about not beingness able to hear the oversupply or your bandmates talking while wearing IEMs, you tin can get ambient IEMs from a company called acs, which allow in a footling bit of outside sound. Here is more info:
https://www.acscustom.com/uk/production...ambient-series
- As for stereo, information technology's especially useful if yous take 2 guitarists in the band, or 1 guitar and one keyboard, as yous can pan each ane to a different side thus giving a bit of separation and allowing you to hear each 1 better. This is important for instruments that occupy the aforementioned frequency range.
- If you're nonetheless not convinced about IEMs, here is an article from the Shure website called '10 Reasons Why In-Ear Monitors Are Better Tha Wedges':
https://world wide web.shure.com/en-US/performa...er-than-wedges
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by nksoloproject ➡️
- As for stereo, it's specially useful if you have ii guitarists in the ring, or 1 guitar and one keyboard, as you can pan each one to a different side thus giving a bit of separation and assuasive you lot to hear each i better. This is of import for instruments that occupy the aforementioned frequency range.
- If yous still not convinced almost IEMs, here is an article from the Shure website called '10 Reasons Why In-Ear Monday......
-by master good mix shouldnt need stereo reproduction to accomplish frequency equilibrium. For case, if both your guitars sound exactly the same you wont get good separation between them in mono. But, if youve already got a adept complete guitar audio, adept tone balance. It shouldnt matter.
- Shure makes and sells IEM. Of course they'll tell you 10 reasons why you demand them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cphollis ➡️
Small boosted thought: Assuming you've got something like the Ten-Air 18, there are 6 auxes out. We got started with IEMs past but running a monitor feed to a small-scale, inexpensive bombardment-powered chugalug device, which then went to IEMs. You couldn't control the mix directly, only could command book.
Well, inconvenient for the vocaliser, as in that location were batteries and cables involved. Simply nosotros were able to attempt IEMs without much boosted investment.
Re: stereo and singers hearing themselves conspicuously. "Real" stereo is two separate paired signals. My keys puts out a 50 and a R, and they are different. I use two of the sixteen available channels.
Vocals are a mono source, equally is a guitar, etc. Drum mixes can be panned nicely, and then "real" stereo. Some effects (stereo chorus) make a mono bespeak stereo. With a personal mixer, a vocalist tin can set balance for each aqueduct, and so they go a really squeamish mix, including their own voice in dead center, with other vocalists on i "side" or another. Works great.
Withal, this sort of setup won't send effects on stage unless you lot so some clever routing, for which youtube volition instruct y'all if needed.
What's slightly frustrating (to me anyway) is that my ring are used to working with wedges, or in rehearsal just with amps and cabs. I'm the only one who feels the practical need for IEMs to do my job better.
It's a very screamy metal band, and in my feel the best way to become good operation is to make sure that I tin can hear myself at just the right level, and then I'thou never trying to just use my voice to sing over 100w stacks and a live pulsate kit. The PA is there to give me volume, but I need to hear in my own head that the volume is there and is balancing out. Otherwise I end up pushing too difficult and my voice starts breaking up pretty quickly.
I presently use the old "one ear in" flim-flam, and I know that's not ideal merely it's a cheap and muddied answer. Every bit I say, I am used to having my voice panned to 1 side anyway, and the other side being the band and a bit of vocalism, so it gives me what I'k used to and I can at least perform alright. Simply information technology's a duct record solution. I take it prepare upwardly as the mic into a channel strip, then into a cheap ane channel microphone monitor box, with the main signal feeding the mixer and I can jack in my IEMs there and have a carve up volume knob just for me. It'south fine. But human being I would much rather have both my ears in and exist able to be a bit more picky over what I hear.
Some other frustration here is that using a stage box to bulldoze IEMs means everyone else has to mic upwards every fourth dimension (including practise) or otherwise figure out a no-cab solution to spit out an XLR from their amps. So those fringe benefits like "Hey we tin spend a week getting a perfect mix instead of FoH deciding!" weirdly are more disarming.
Honestly, I couldn't actually care less if the others use IEMs or not, every bit long as they are running into a mixer that facilitates me using them. So saying "Hey we can record a whole alive show/practise" is again another good thing that can help them see it'south worth the try.
Source: https://gearspace.com/board/live-sound/1358498-how-get-started-ear-monitors-my-band.html
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